In this episode, the show features an in-depth conversation with a husband-and-wife duo who run a small art and design agency, The Medium. They recount their early days balancing day jobs while freelancing, their humble start in 2003, and how they gradually quit their jobs once they had enough clients. The couple reflects on creative struggles, resourcefulness (like buying and returning a laptop for a presentation), and their gradual hiring of crucial team members, including their first designer and developer. They discuss their evolving approach to client work, the importance of maintaining a balanced work-life environment, and their philosophy on staying small yet impactful. The conversation also delves into their personal creative pursuits outside the business, their philosophies on design education, hiring practices, and the professional dynamics between them. Overall, the episode offers a candid look at the trials, triumphs, and thoughtful decisions that have shaped their business and personal lives in the creative field.
Navigating Creativity and Business: The Story of a Small Art and Design Studio
This episode delves into the journey of a small art and design studio run by a husband and wife team since 2003. Initially driven by confidence and a desire for creative freedom, the duo discusses their growth from freelancing and day jobs to establishing a sustainable business. They reflect on balancing personal creativity with business needs, and the dynamics of hiring and managing a small team. The episode also explores the evolving landscape of the design industry, the impact of technology, and their approach to client relationships. Personal anecdotes highlight their commitment to maintaining a balance between work, creativity, and personal well-being.
00:00 The Beginnings
01:16 Starting the Studio: Early Challenges
02:47 Taking the Leap: Quitting Day Jobs
05:56 Learning on the Job: Early Mistakes
08:58 Building the Team: Key Hires
11:17 Balancing Growth and Specialization
13:06 Client Relationships and Business Philosophy
16:22 Navigating the Design Industry
21:39 Authenticity in Business
26:14 The Changing Landscape of Design Firms
26:51 Client Relationships and Project Cycles
28:16 Balancing Small and Large Projects
29:36 Reflecting on Business and Success
31:20 Lightning Round: Fun and Quick Questions
32:13 Work Environment and Tools
34:00 Living and Working in North Bend
34:58 The Creative Bus Studio
36:13 Education and Career Advice
39:33 Internships and Remote Work
41:50 Freelancing and Building a Business
44:32 Future Plans and Personal Reflections
47:59 The Core of Our Relationship
49:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
For more go to https://seattlecreative.directory/
and say hi! jonny@seattlecreative.directory
ad: Edited in Descript https://get.descript.com/rj9bozp5wx8e
This is a generated transcript, apologies for any errors
Josh: [00:00:00] Overconfidence is great because it was like, oh yeah, all we'll have to do is just get clients and,
It'll be easy. It's not going to be hard to do, which was wrong, but that blind faith in let's just do something.
We can do this. that's definitely a big part of
Lisa: That's youth.
Jonny: you are husband, wife, business band, creating this interest led life, which is awesome. And the studio is the medium, a quote, small, little art and design agency that makes some pretty big things.
are you a studio of eight? Is that correct?
Lisa: maybe a little bit less right now. Okay.
Jonny: About five core people.
Okay.and your work is across the [00:01:00] spectrum of the creative fields, but it's not like capital D design.
And I think that's,that's A strong point that I'm really interested in. it's a perspective that is uniquely local and uniquely the collection of your people take me back a little bit. you started this in 2003.
what pushed you over the edge?
thing. That's, yeah. Where did it all
Josh: probably start with that because I think, I think this company kind of started because I was a, had graduated college as an art student and, needed to make a living. So I was like, I knew it's great. Might try my hand at design. I didn't really study that in college.
and I got a design job pretty quickly in that, I was just learning as I went as I got a design job, but I just quickly was like wanting to do something else or do something on our own. I don't know. I'm not answering this very well. Yeah. Just looking at you. I can try that again.
Lisa: Well, well, no. I mean, I think that's accurate, except. [00:02:00] You were like, what, how I remember it, this is a long time ago. How I remember it is you were kind of freelancing. You were like, you were a waiter and then you were going door to door, like offering to build small businesses, flash websites,
Josh: Oh yeah, that's
Lisa: I had a job in retail at a horseback riding equipment store.
And then you got your job at Trinity Lutheran as a real graphic
Josh: That's
right. Okay.
Lisa: And you
Josh: had that. It's all coming back to me.
Lisa: And then, it was funny because he got that job, but then you didn't really know like anything about graphic design.
At that point
Josh: I think that what stood out in my interview was that I could draw a little bit and that was like a little new and different. So they were like, Oh, maybe that could be helpful.
Lisa: and you had your websites that you had done? yeah, yeah.
You had some of the freelance you had done, but from there then we both had these, day jobs, but I feel like we knew that it could be more like we wanted freedom and, um, [00:03:00] wanted, to do our own thing.
Josh: I think the short answer to your question, I think we both wanted to do something that we could focus on our creative pursuits a little bit more the side while we were trying to, pay our rent and make a living, but not be just so beholden to the day job.
So we just going to take a risk and do that.
Lisa: that's a great answer something funny I remember is our parents were like, really? that's cool, but are you sure? And then your mom, I'm, I think she was like, you guys need to send a letter to all of the friends and family saying what you're doing and seeing if you can get any clients.
And we were like, okay. That was the worst. We didn't get any clients. It was embarrassing. Like I was embarrassed and you don't really want to work with family anyway, as we've learned.
Josh: That's true. But, but no, I definitely do remember a lot of people not encouraging us to do that. I think our parents did, but I remember a lot of people being like, are you sure you want to do that?
That doesn't seem like a good idea.
Jonny: So where does this like base desire then to, to pursue your [00:04:00] own creativity come from? Like where, why then, if everyone's telling, you know, were you like, okay, but we got to do this anyway.
for me, I was, I've always wanted to just dabble in different things, create different art pieces and just have freedom to do that. And it didn't take that long to have a real job for me to feel that anxiety of like, this is taking up that time.
Lisa: And I think for me,
Because of working in retail, I had seen how a business runs a little bit. And I was like, I can do that. I think I was a little bit overconfident almost. it seems like pretty doable.
Josh: Yeah, I think that's true. Overconfidence is great because it was like, oh yeah, all we'll have to do is just get clients and, It'll be easy. It's not going to be hard to do, which was wrong, but that blind faith in let's just do something.
We can do this. Is that's definitely a big part of
Lisa: That's youth.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah.
Jonny: and [00:05:00] it's beautiful in that it pushes you in those directions. I think I'm, yeah, I'm coming back to that. I recognize that feeling in and now I'm questioning feeling in a hopefully positive way.
That keeps me pushing forward. but what was there a turning point where you actually like this happened,you got clients and you're like, this is something that we can leave our day jobs on.
Lisa: yeah, I guess there must've been because we did both quit, but I'd say it was probably within that first year. It wasn't, didn't take too long within that first year. We probably had enough clients. remember also, we didn't, you don't have a lot of expenses when it's just us
Josh: There's not a lot of overhead running a design firm. It's just,
Lisa: out of your house.
Yeah. So we got to a point, I guess, where we just thought, Oh, like we're the money, the checks are coming in. And I guess we can quit our jobs.
Josh: just remember a lot of failing at the beginning. I remember a lot [00:06:00] of Clients that we'd get and just scrambling. I remember like doing a lot of free design work to try to get jobs. That's true. Um, which is a huge, you know, later I learned you're not ever supposed to do that as a designer.
I just remember just and taking on a lot more than we, that I just cheap. Just really taking on anything we could. Yeah.
Lisa: and you, because you're to be clear, like Josh is the designer and I'm trying to run the business and also learn skills that are needed. I'm trying to build websites with Dreamweaver. It's not going very well.
Josh: Things are breaking.
Lisa: there were a lot of tears and frustration.
Like we've, we fought a lot, we did. And, it was hard.
Josh: even me as not, I wasn't even a trained designer. So I was making a lot of mistakes. oh, what's a vector file?
a company's I need this, high res. I'm like, learning as I go. cause I, yeah, I went to a fine art school and so I didn't learn design skills.
Lisa: and like
our first website job that we got, like our first significant website job, we didn't even realize that it [00:07:00] had an entire interactive calendar component when we landed it. And then about halfway through the project, we were like, Oh no, this is way beyond our skillset.
What are we going to do?
Josh: and I don't know if we can include this or not. I'll let you decide, but. that exact memory of that job was a job where we need to go present a design for, to get this job. I'm not going to say who it is cause they're still a client, I believe.
but we went to present this job, to present designs to see if we could get scored this job and we didn't have a laptop that we could bring that had an output to project. So we went to Costco, bought a laptop, went to present the presentation. from the, from that presentation, went right, right back to Costco, returned the laptop, came home and we got the job and that's that job that we didn't.
And then when we got it, we were so excited, but then it had all of this technology that we were not capable of doing.
Lisa: because we landed it based on the design. Yeah.
Josh: So that, but that [00:08:00] kind of led to the first time we ever were like, we need help. so we look for a developer that could actually help
Lisa: And we pulled it together, but a lot of, I would characterize this whole thing is like a lot of learning as you go.
Jonny: flying by the seat of your
Josh: Yeah. In hindsight, it definitely feels like that.
Lisa: because the technology was changing to like you were using flash, but then that was obsolete. the technology just changes so quickly.
Jonny: And it's still changing,
Lisa: Yep.
Jonny: if not faster,
Josh: Oh yeah.
Lisa: Faster.
as soon as you learn something, as soon as you learn how to essentially how to sell that project, something else has replaced it. And is that newer thing better? Or is that thing just different? But you have to learn it to be able to make that decision.Which is why I am pushing our entire business toward print design and fewer websites, less technology and more straight, just design.
Josh: just in a segue from what we were [00:09:00] talking about cause we hired somebody that we needed, right?I just feel like the first thing that we did was when we needed help, we hired Jackie Lott. And so she, when she, when we hired her, she was like,
she'd already known so much about design.
she was, she had studied design at University of Washington program. Immediately, I was like, she was saying things that I'd never heard before and that I, that was a huge gap in what I was capable of. So it was just like, oh my gosh, can you please work with us? It was more, it was like, It was just, I think
Lisa: out of necessity. Yeah,
Josh: and it's and thank goodness we did.
Jackie is just incredible. And and and I think that's just the case with each person. It's like we're, it's almost like we don't even know what we're looking for until you meet the person. Then you're like, oh my gosh, you can fill such a huge gap in what we're, what we need.
Lisa: Yeah, but I, that's what I was going to say is I would say the common denominator of everyone that we've had is they have just filled a need.
Like we're not going out and head hunting people for a certain skill set. But, we [00:10:00] tend to do more design than development. And so when we get too busy with design, we find more designers.
Josh: and I think that all this, Jackie, that's a great example. It's if we run into something, people who are willing to be like, Ooh, that sounds interesting.
I want to learn that too. Even in, I think that like somebody who is a jack of all trades or has dabbled in different disciplines, you can tell that they're open to doing that. And that's like a huge benefit to having a small team, So
Lisa: that's what makes our people amazing.
Jonny: Okay, so it started with the two of you. You hired one when you had the need. How much longer until you came upon a third and fourth person?
Josh: Probably Vinny
Lisa: before Jackie. Okay. So Vinny's our developer. And he's in West Seattle and he's also a great friend cause we've been working with him for 15 plus years. He came on to start helping with the development as I realized that I was not a web developer and did not want to be, he filled that huge need. Jackie came on to fill the design overflow and [00:11:00] also, to teach Josh in design.
Josh: she tried to teach me and she didn't, she was just like, you need to learn this and I resisted for, Felt like almost like 10 years, but it was probably a few.
Lisa: Yeah. and then from there, they just sprinkled along as we grew. We've always had a little bit of a tension between Josh and I with if we want to grow, how fast we want to grow.
there was a big period of time when you wanted us to hire more people. And I was always the one that was like, I want to stay small. I want to specialize and be more selective about our clients.
Josh: Oh my gosh, this is a cool to think about because you're right. That was a huge point of contention. And I'm looking here now and I'm like, we have arrived at this happy medium, which is funny because it's the name of our company.
But it's like where we both are in agreement of just this lifestyle business. We've Grown to where we would ever maximum want to really grow. and just have this kind of but you're [00:12:00] right That was a huge like learning curve. I'm being like, how do we handle like The growth and saying no, I was, I hated saying no.
And I think to any kind of work, I think that was just like a symptom of just being like, we have to make this work in general. And so anything that came our way, I was like, we can't say no. We just have to hire more people. We have to figure this out.
Lisa: And then I was like, sometimes hiring more people is more of a pain and doesn't really help end up helping you.
Josh: especially if you don't. If we land on the wrong person somehow, which has
Lisa: Yes. Yes. With the right. It could be. And for me as running the business side of it, I always had more of that view of is this what I want to be doing?
Are we making money? Is this the right direction for our company?
And, but you are too. we're like co CEOs, right?
Jonny: I'm the one that always says no, and he's the one that always wants to do everything.
Josh: to do
Yeah, but bringing it back, I think that has changed. I feel like we've gotten, we've really gotten through all that.
Lisa: yes, definitely.
Josh: more relaxed and where it [00:13:00] should be.
Jonny: right. Balancing your own health with the business's health. I think I've always seen people struggle with that no matter the size of thehow do you balance then the employees that you do have and their personal and creative health then with your own? And is there alignment happening there?
Is there a friction?
Lisa: I feel really like we're really in alignment because I prioritize my employees so much. Like I feel like probably half of my job is just making sure they're happy. They are in balance.
They have projects they like. If anyone's getting frustrated, I try to notice right away. I just, I know that without my employees being in balance and happy, like we don't have a business.
Josh: Oh, man. Yeah. Immediately when you say that I almost have PTSD of going back before we even found Jackie or Vinny or anybody and where I was like, talk about health.
I was a mess. I was just like. It was just a manic designer that was just trying to keep up. And, it was just like, that's [00:14:00] why I think that is true. It's if Jackie, Vinnie, Michelle, if, if they're all happy, then I'm happy. It's that's all, it's like the most important thing is my lifeline.
Lisa: Yeah, definitely.
Jonny: why, like, why do creatives end up in this, funny manic state? it happens to everyone. I don't know if it's deadlines, I don't know if it's trying to keep up with different applications, the different software, but.
I feel like the more people I talked to at some point in their life, they hit that wall ofjust vibrating too fast.
And then,
hopefully found the right direction after that. Do you know why that happens? Like,
Josh: being a designer is so fun. It's it's just so engaging and it's almost addictive. it's just it's so fun to create things. And so I think you can get caught up in that world of just I can do it all.
And you just keep doing it and you keep doing, you keep learning and keep getting better and then it can get away from you and then you're left being like, Oh shit,what, I can't deal with this, and so I think that's just a [00:15:00] big part of learning how to be a designer is to like, look, see the signs early, pace yourself.
Lisa: And that took me a long time to learn. And not just design as a designer, but as an artist,
Josh: Absolutely. Yeah. You're
Lisa: same. Yeah.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I've gotten better at that. I still have issues sometimes with that,just trying to ignore the world and just keep, because I'm still on a mission.
Jonny: but, yeah, I think that's a big, that's my theory, you ever find yourself over committing the amount of time that you have to work on things both from a, I know I can design this and that's great. I can do it, but then also I have this book project that I'm working on and I have to self, I have to pace this by myself to keep it going, but this client is breathing down my neck.
Is there a tension internally on that?
Josh: for me, no, because I think that my, all my, all that, those issues of just working so hard and not ignoring the signs or whatever that, that came from internal, not so much external, I feel like it's like,my people are, [00:16:00] people don't, aren't like, you need to do this.
It's me that wants to do that. I
Lisa: And I think totally, but I think also, as our business has matured, like we've gotten more realistic about deadlines and timelines and
Jonny: Oh, for sure. And
Lisa: that's a luxury to be able to say, You know what?
I can't do that right now, but I'll do that in two weeks. And usually people are pretty accepting. I think there was a franticness when we were starting our business, maybe from fear, maybe from the energy of youth, but it was like, like you said earlier, like a frenetic sort of energy. And I feel like now just where we are, it's just like a little bit more settled and like everyone's pacing themselves a little bit more.
Josh: and maybe that's just because the, there's an exponential, like franticness in technology in the world around us. So it's we better balance that out.
Lisa: Yeah. even, so now I work with Jackie, on design more than I work with you and I can recognize it in Jackie. Like the other day I was like, come out with me.
We're going for a walk. [00:17:00] Yeah.
Josh: know, I don't know if everybody knows this but Yeah.
She thinks of her designers as they're plants that need to be nurtured and watered and cared for and I think that that's why on our portfolio It's like least is the secret to the medium's success.
it's just a fact
Lisa: oh, that's nice.
Josh: well, it's true because without The plants are gonna die
Lisa: without water
Jonny: and sun. True. What's What's, what's your secret fertilizer?
Lisa: it'sjust being intuitive and compassionate, like to people's needs and what's going on for them.
Josh: I'd say patience to,
Lisa: Patience.
Josh: a lot of times designers just don't have time for,client communication and stuff and like having that patience with our clients and our designers and just not being so reactive. You're not a reactive person. You're just you take it all in, you see it all and you make a decision [00:18:00] later.
Not so immediately.
Jonny: that's fantastic to have a balance between the two of you.
Lisa: Yes, Yeah.
Josh: Yeah.
I would say you're very balanced.
Lisa: No, we're balanced.
Jonny: the of you, yeah.
Lisa: Yeah.
Josh: Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, thanks.
Jonny: that's, I think that's interesting to find in both a creative duo and a personal duo, right? That's hard, for anyone to have that balance with another person. But also to, to be able to check each other. hopefully openly and hopefully constructively,
Yeah.
and it takes time to build that kind of relationship.
in your process of building the company, you're bound to have worked with other business owners, whether other, whether ever mentors or,other people that you learned that kind of positive. Habits from our positive behaviors
Lisa: I feel like I've seen it done wrong a lot. I feel like I've seen a lot [00:19:00] of people,
sort of,
not, run things in a way that is healthy for everyone.
And so I have tried to do the opposite. That's
Josh: as far as our relationships concerned, I think we just got really lucky because I think you're right.
I think it is really rare to have, a kind of an opposite. that works that well, but also in common in certain ways. And so I think that, like that, the tension is good, right? It's like the push and pull is good for a business too. It's like the, the fact that you are patient and I'm like, let's go, you need both of those to find out what the real answer is.
stuff like that. But as far as a mentorship for our relationship, and how that goes, I don't know about that. We just, I feel, I really just feel like we got really late, really lucky that. But as far as our business is concerned, I think you're right. We said that we saw all shapes and sizes of businesses and were encouraged by a lot of different people, like encouraged to you need to grow, you need to grow and encouraged to stay [00:20:00] small.
and I can't really think of anything specific cause it's all these different people and mentors had value and we just Find the happy medium. Here we go again. It's like somewhere in the middle,
right?
Lisa: I have actually a thought is that I feel like over the years I have learned so much from our clients.because the nature of this business is you end up working with a lot of different clients and you have these relationships, some of them short, some of them long, and they're all running businesses. So you see what they're doing and how their team is and how people react. And I feel like I've learned a lot about just the world by all the different Interactions I have with my clients.
They still do.
Josh: Yeah, no, I agree with that and our team,And people that we end up working with is, that for me as a designer, I learn a lot from the people I work with as a designer.
Jonny: So actually, interesting clients that I've been a part of on or witnessed on the part of the other side. the Seattle Public Library. Yeah. The luncheon with Kerry Martinez, I [00:21:00] was on the library side of that kind of working with them to help organize it.
And then your, Providence digital innovation group rebrand. I think I was in the office when you did that rebrand working for them. Um, yeah, it's just kind of, you know,
Josh: That's cool.
Jonny: sides of world.
How are you seeking out clients in general and how are you approaching them? And what is that relationship with, smaller local businesses versus huge local businesses? and what is the profile of the group or the person that you're looking for that, that matches with your business?
Lisa: wow, that's a great question. And it's actually, it's
honestly, we haven't seeked out a client in probably a decade.
Jonny: Wow.
Lisa: I would say that. All of our clients are, have resulted from either word of mouth, relationship building. Somebody transitioned, like my contact at Providence was at a different [00:22:00] company. and that's how I met her. And then she brought us along for projects there that has happened numerous times.
I have numerous long time connections that have brought us through their careers. Isn't that weird?
Jonny: That's rad.
Lisa: Yeah. And, but then still just a few weeks ago there was that little project, like a custom illustration for somebody's header on their LinkedIn profile that smaller than small business. This guy's not even a business.
He's just like trying to have something cool for LinkedIn. And we were like, that sounds fun. Sure. let's do that. So at this point, I feel like. It's a mix of these longterm sort of legacy client relationships and then taking the new fun stuff that comes along.
Josh: yeah, and I, it's, I think that it's the beauty of like getting to that point where we're, when I'm like, not like we have to say a yes to everything. I haven't been doing that forever. And we are at the point wherewe couldn't take on too much more work [00:23:00] because we'd have to grow.
And so that, I think that's why we haven't been looking
Lisa: Yes, that's
exactly
Josh: so we, and if it was my old self, I'd be like, why haven't you hired 10 more people and moved into a giant office and conquered the world or whatever.
Lisa: Yeah. When we got this office, you were talking about blowing the wall out and
and expanding next door.
like, wait, what?
Yeah, I've got that in check now. No, but it's just, yeah, it's, I don't want that in my And anymore. And it's yeah, I, so I think that's why we're we are capable if we did do that, we wouldn't be able to do. a small logo for the brewery here, or we be able to do some like small stuff that, I've just spent last week doing a design for my sister in law who's starting a bakery just for fun, So it's I love doing that because it brings me back to my roots of when I was practically a kid, just making logos for fun. and I want to hang on to that. And Yeah, but it's nice to not feel the pressure to have to go out and pound the pavement or try to rustle up business and I'm also Like I feel like [00:24:00] one of our things that we used to say is let's just be authentic Like let's just be
who
we are like remember that thing people used to do on their websites where they'd say they had a second office just to look bigger
Jonny: Oh yeah.
Lisa: Think you wanted to do that
Josh: point. Hell no. Come on. Don't be throwing me under the bus like that. No, I would never do that. I definitely, it's I think for me, a lot of the growth came from, as a young designer, I would go into big design firms and freelance for them.
And I would see what was going on there where they have a lot of marketing people and they have this, I was in some pretty high profile meetings where it's just a lot of talk. And there's just there's just, there was a lot of like excess talk. And then really what happened was they just had a few freelancers design their logos.
Lisa: And that's what, that's how they ran their business. And I was wow, this is, that's, we could do that without those people. And so I think that that's how we came up with some of our copy on our site about without, no, no bloated layers of communication and just being a little bit more [00:25:00] efficient.
yeah, but I had a different thing I was going to say about being, Oh, I was going to say, when you asked. About how we get business now for a lot of small businesses, there are so many other options besides hiring a design firm. And I'm always really honest. have you looked at Fiverr?
Have you looked at 99 designs? Have you looked at the new AI tools? Like we might not be the best fit for you. And I like being able to do that because it's I'm not desperate to land this job. I'm just helping you out.
I think it comes back around.
Josh: No, I think that's cool. Yeah, I agree. Like those, we're like 99 designs, although like those crowds sourcing, those were Oh man, I was just put us all out of business or whatever.
And now we literally are like, that might be good for you. Good fit. Just to pack together a quick logo and you can just start your business really easy. I don't know if this is going to be good for your audience to listen to hear that from a design firm, but I think that there is a need for that.
it's like with the AI stuff, it's Hopefully we can use it as a tool and not be so afraid of it, but we'll see.
Yeah.
that
Jonny: they [00:26:00] use it as a tool.
I don't know, 80 people in them. This is huge. And they're gorgeous when you walk a client through them and you're like, okay, well, none of those plants are alive and half the people don't actually work here.that's a cool thing to be a part of. and it creates a, sometimes healthy, sometimes not healthy environment.
there's also a lot of design firms that have a better stocked bar than the bar down the street.
And,
yes, that can be fun. That can be like, bizarre to be a part of, but moving into kind of this new, post lockdown world is a totally different world at this point, especially for design businesses.
And especially for as these tool, more tools come out,Do you feel like you get involved with companies later in their project?
[00:27:00] cycle? Do you, in their business cycle, when you're pushing people to these other tools, is it a different kind of relationship, than you would have previously had with them?
Lisa: maybe a little, I feel like because we don't do copywriting and we don't do overarching like strategy, like who you are. When someone approaches me, I'm always really clear about the pieces we need before we start working with them. And I've learned to do that. I've gotten, I think, better at that, knowing that our strength is coming in to hit the design hard when some of those pieces are in place.
Josh: Yeah
Lisa: But,
Josh: and For the like when you for example where you're like, oh, maybe you should go to fiver It's that might be somebody who's doesn't really even know what they're doing yet You know, so it's that's a good tool for you. Like instead of coming to a design firm like us
Lisa: Or remember living Snoqualmie and how I kept trying to, I was like, I don't think you need us. Like you just need a, you just need a thing for your blog. And then she was like, no, I really want to work [00:28:00] with you. And then she hired Josh to do this really cool. You did that, right? That, really, but by the time she worked with us, she knew exactly what she wanted and she was able to describe it and it didn't take that long and it came out really cool.
Josh: Yeah.but the, yeah. But to your question of what part of the cycle we're in with the different clients, it almost feels like it goes back to the authentic thing. But back in the day, we'd be like, yes, we'll do everything. Even copywriting, we'll hire a copywriter or whatever.
And we still do that sometimes. Like
Lisa: yeah,
Josh: when there's a real good client relationship, they need something like, Oh, we know some people we can help find somebody. but.
just being in, we, I really do feel like we still are in between the freelancer and the big firm that you're talking about. And we're just in this kind of unique space that way.
I don't think there's a lot of design firms that are that way. so we are able to do the small freelancer job that, sounds really fun. and maybe even has a lower budget. And we can just do that because we believe in it or whatever. But then we can also, we actually can take on some bigger work, [00:29:00] like you said, some of our clients
Lisa: feel like you're not really answering his question.
Jonny: That's okay.
Josh: How long have I been talking?
Jonny: That's okay.
Lisa: new question.
Josh: are we just, are we fucking this
Jonny: No, it's great. I,it's,
I think it's, I think it's important just
To have like profiles on how people think if I can represent,the variety of profiles of how people of how creative businesses think, then I'm successful in this.
Josh: it's funny. It is funny cause we are probably able to, cause it's like how often have we ever reflected on business where sat down and to us about
Jonny: What is, what is, you are here at this stage, but what was,
what did a successful studio look like to you when you started, and what does it look like to you now?
Lisa: what does It
look like [00:30:00] to you now?
Josh: Wow.
Jonny: Time to go home.
Josh: Yeah.I feel like I've arrived too, but I think when I was younger, I pictured. Something bigger. I also had crazy ideas of a combination design studio, but also art studio where people are making comics too.
And we're
Jonny: and you are.
Josh: I am. Yes. But I, in my vision, when I was a kid, it was like this almost like this creative commune or something. I don't even know what was going on in my head, but I was like, let's just combine everything and whatever. So that was, I had a crazy insane vision when I was younger, but now I do vision like this because this is, this feels right.
Yeah.
Does
Lisa: Another funny memory from earlier on is I think in the first year or so in our house, When everyone was asking us about web hosting and who do you want to host?
Josh: Where should we host our website? For about two days, Josh was like, we should get some servers and put them in the closet and we should [00:31:00] host websites. And I was like, no, people are gonna be calling you at all hours when everything goes wrong. Like we cannot do that. And I was right.She was right. She was right.
It would have been fun
fun. It would have been fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa: This
Jonny: All right. this is the lightning round for points. GIF or Jif. GIF. Okay.
Josh: You weren't going to say that, were you?
Lisa: I was trying to think if you're saying,
I'm not the designer. I just run the business, but I know what those are. But I was like,
Jonny: was
Lisa: I was like, you stopped me. I was like, wait, do I, you're saying, how do you say it? That's the question.
Jonny: if you had chosen GIF or peanut butter, then that would have been, that would have been fine.
Lisa: But wait, what did you say?
Josh: I said GIF, but I'm just all of a sudden panicking. I'm like, Jackie's going to hear this and I'm probably wrong. think I
Lisa: I think I usually say Jif, but okay.
Jonny: Badoni or Baskerville?
Lisa: That's a, those are
Jonny: Those are [00:32:00] fonts
I'll
Josh: you can pass. Okay.
Jonny: Times or Georgia
Lisa: Georgia.
Josh: Georgia.
Jonny: Helvetica
or Futura?
Lisa: Futura.
Josh: I'm the same.
Jonny: what application do you have open the most on your computer?
Lisa: Procreate, because I've been drawing on my iPad. What is your general setup? Do you have eight monitors? Do you
Josh: For me, it's procreate. 'cause I've been drawn on my iPad mostly.
Jonny: Nice. I'm a recent QuickBooks convert. So I'm in, what is your general kind of
tool set up? Do you have eight monitors? Do you have a tablet?
Yeah, for
Josh: me, I'm, I've moved on from design a little bit. And so I'm in the world yeah. So really it's really just my sketchbook and my iPad
That's right. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. I'm laptop plugged into large monitor for my eyesight.
Jonny: Excellent, keyboard [00:33:00] mouse pen tablet custom keyboard. What do you got?
Lisa: Really old keyboard probably needs to be replaced and a wireless mouse.
Josh: and
Lisa: she sits on an inflatable ball as her seat. that's cool. And one time she fell off of it on the phone. It was a long time
Jonny: Do you have a coffee or tea ritual as a studio? the
Lisa: in the winter, we drink a lot of tea. Sometimes me, sometimes we'll go for a walk to get coffee for a break. I'd say mix and match.
Jonny: That's changed for me, a
Lisa: going to go RBG, Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Jonny: a midget. pen or
Lisa: Mornings for me.
Josh: it's changed for me. I used to be a night owl, but I'm just mornings and midday.
Pencil.
those are for points and I'm just going to have a running tally of everyone [00:34:00] against each other.
Jonny: Or did you live in different parts of the Northwest before you ended up solidifying here in the
Lisa: My grandma had a property out here and she actually gave it to us. So we moved to North Bend and it had a derelict house that had to be torn down.
So we built a small house in 2000, 2001, and then we moved there. It was odd 'cause we still had a lot of friends in Seattle. I had a job in Bellevue. You had a job in Issaquah.
Josh: back then they were, people were like, North Bend, you're moving all the way out to North Bend. What the heck are you thinking? Cause it was really far away at that point. and now it was a really small town. You'd be here at the bar. Once in a time, once in a while, you'd see a car drive by every five,
Lisa: minutes. It's changed so
Josh: Now we got traffic roundabouts everywhere. It's exploding. It's a straight up suburb now.
Lisa: but we just fell in love with it.
Like we, we love it out
Josh: here.
Lisa: Yeah.
So that's, we got really
Josh: out. This place is incredible.
Lisa: Yeah.
Jonny: And you Josh [00:35:00] work out of a restored bus. Is that correct?
Josh: yeah. So when my, when my, when we had kids,we had, we still had our design firm in our house. I was, I had art materials everywhere. Our house is small. I was like, I got a lot smaller. I was looking up places, to figure out a solution for that. And so this bus just popped up on Craigslist when I was looking for like outbuildings and just solutions.
And, yeah, I had a towed door property and that's just my studio.
Jonny: as a, in addition to your house, but it's not really a building like a house. It's this interesting space on its own. has that positively affected the work that you do there? Or has it, is it just a, is it just a
Josh: I think it's been a real positive. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really unique environment. it's really, I didn't really realize how great it would be to have such a dedicated space for that, So it's as soon as I opened the doors to the bus, it's I know why I'm there. It's like a really clear clears my [00:36:00] head, rather than having a space that's, used multiple disciplines or whatever.
Lisa: it's a very creative environment and we've had, we've done a lot of creative stuff in there.
Jonny: the art education, design education, general university education versus just learning a lot of this on your own and teaching yourself. Obviously you both went to school, but if you were telling someone now, who was like 18, whether or not they should go to school, go to university to get into a creative field, should they just go learn something?
Should they basically take an apprenticeship somewhere? Because a lot of the work that we do still falls into that kind of craftsmanship
type
world. Where do you sit on that spectrum? But then also if you were telling someone who was 35, who wanted to get into the creative space with all kinds of different life experience, [00:37:00] what would you tell that person?
Josh: Wow. That's great. I just really feel like it depends on the individual, right? really, I feel like what it comes down to is whatever is going to get you working and passionate and working all the time.
And so if that means, if you are the kind of person that can just On your own. Be so driven and excited to learn things using YouTube on your own talking to people learning things on your own I absolutely think that can work because really what it comes down to in the end is your portfolio what you're capable of doing at this point But if you're the kind of person that wants to like, you know Really get deep into the history of things and be surrounded by an environment that's going to help you get working and education, I think is the place to go.
Absolutely. whether it's art school, which I did, or an actual design education like you did, right?
yeah.
yeah, I think that's that's a huge benefit that any design firm is going to really need. And obviously we do. So having people that have that, those skill sets, it's [00:38:00] that's, that is really important. So I don't know if that answers the
question.
Jonny: No,
I, it does. I definitely pull out some like design history, art history, vibes sometimes, I get a lot of blank stares, so it's
Josh: Yeah,
because
those, but those blank stairs are because they're,they're working in their mind. They're like, Whoa, what's that about? they don't really that's, Going back to Jackie, we have somebody in house here that's like highly educated in design history and design principles.
And she pulls stuff out all the time that you're just like, Whoa, where'd that come from? And it worked. it answered a lot of questions. And it solved a big problem, and that's the kind of stuff you can really only get by diving into the history books stuff like So when you say,
Lisa: yeah, definitely. And I have an English degree,
so I just liberal arts
Josh: It's cool.
Lisa: sometimes I think it was a waste of money, but.
Josh: money, but Oh my gosh. let, going back to finding good people. Somebody told me this once and I think it's absolutely true. It just, if you're looking for to hire somebody and work with somebody, [00:39:00] if, find out if they can write
even just a coherent cohesive email.
Then you've got somebody, it's like critical thinking. it's got all the ingredients to somebody who can like problem solve and think clearly and communicate. And yeah, that's really important.
Lisa: Yeah, that's true.
that's true. I think it's
Josh: money well spent.
Lisa: I don't know. I don't mean to undermine it.
Josh: And also Lisa is a writer.
we haven't gone into this, but you're, she's, you're, you write short stories and novels and stuff like that. That's an aside.
Lisa: So maybe it was worth it.
Jonny: worth it. Yeah.
Do you
ever take on interns or young people?
Josh: We have dabbled that a little bit. I'm more, I'm a little more interested in working with younger people in fine art. And so I do that a little bit, the high school and stuff like that. but we've done a little bit, Jackie's done a little bit of interning with
Lisa: had someone, someone from the alternative high school in here, a couple of times with Jackie and,I think we would like to do it more, but just the nature of our business, the fact that we're pretty busy and we're not always able to [00:40:00] be here together makes it hard.
Jonny: Yeah. And you are not, you were saying this earlier, you're not all in this space at a given time?
Lisa: were saying this early in the space at a given time?
Because he's doing more of the art stuff. So yeah, we're not, we are doing zoom more than face to face for our team.
Jonny: I think it's fine.
Lisa: I think it's fine. I think people going back to the work life balance and like having a healthy,
just having that sort of
healthy balance,
it's nice to have the flexibility of just not having to be somewhere nine to five. I think everybody appreciates that.
Jonny: have an effect on the quality of work that comes out of the group?[00:41:00]
Lisa: Not at all. I think, the one thing I miss is being able to have like in person critiques. That was really fun when we were all in here together and like looking at logo designs or the first website comps.
Josh: Yeah. No,
Lisa: really discuss. That was so fun.
Josh: That makes it reminds me I mean, I feel like we did that more even during the pandemic we do those online.
you know over slack or something and those are really fun to have a critique around stuff and talk and that help design being a design Designer is inherently solitude.
Lisa: It's a little solitary, but that's why I do actually push for when something is done that we're proud of. I'm like, put it on Slack, share it with the team. Like I really want designer, our designers to feel like their work is like being seen and appreciated since we're not together as much.
Josh: yeah. and a lot can go under the radar and then you're like, miss something that should go on our portfolio or something,
Jonny: yeah, so I, I did just recently move out of Seattle. and it has forced me into freelancing. It has forced me out of, a traditional [00:42:00] studio world. and I think that's, it's been healthy. It's been healthy for me to just get out of the city. but it's also, I have always watched other companies be Built or fall apart a freelance for a lot of different kinds of companies throughout Seattle
so This project that is I get to actually sit down, and reflect on how did you build it?
And It's not pure success the whole time. There's a lot of struggle to building it. and I get to see that from all different walks of life.
It's like the two of you had your own story and struggle and perspective. I've interviewed other people that have, ran those huge
multi mega,
multi office companies.
and have their own perspectives on that. and so I get to feel out sides and
Josh: have you interviewed somebody who's just been a freelancer for 30 years? Or like that?
Jonny: Not yet. the website is interesting in that I originally built it [00:43:00] to show here are the creative businesses around, and where do freelancers fit into that and where do like, Where do not multi person companies fit into that has always been, where do I draw the line
Josh: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonny: Cause if I just list everyone, it's
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. then that's
Jonny: what is, yeah. What that mean? And it's not like you have to qualify to get on the website. The only qualification was you're in the area and you do this stuff. I would love it to have like more video people or more things that are not. Design,
Josh: yeah.
Jonny: like capital D design.
things that are not, what you have always thought of as graphic designand that it, it stems from that because that was my background. So come up with a list of tags. Okay. that's the first things that come to mind.
Uh,
Lisa: you've
been on the other end of some of our projects. Yeah. That's really cool.
a just recently we did a big video for Prya for one of the dig [00:44:00] spinoffs.but we, I've never physically set foot in the
Jonny: Maybe it was a different
Lisa: Different video firm. Yeah. They use us for, they use us a lot, but it's for a select set of stuff. They're definitely one of our biggest clients.
Jonny: two years there working on like emergency room video chat. It was fascinating. Honestly, some of my favorite work
Lisa: Wow.
Jonny: I've ever done. And that was still years ago.
Lisa: Wow.
Josh: cool. Wow.
Jonny: very fun. Um,larger questions, what does it mean to have, like your business be your creative output? What does that mean to you?
Lisa: for me,
it's not really my creative output, the business, because I guess running a business is creative and I'm very close to the creative work that others are doing, which I love.but it's not, this isn't like a creative outlet for me. [00:45:00] I think it's more of just, I love. having a business that is creative.
Josh: yeah, I think, no, I think that's a great answer because it's not your only creative.I think that you are, I've seen you in here. You're creative. when we are in a design critique and Jackie's showing designs and you, you have a great eye and you are creative and you can problem solve and think creatively with design, even though you're not a designer.
But yeah, having a company that is creative, it's not my only creative pursuit either. It's not my full,I think it used to be for a long time. my only. Cause it was just, yeah, I was so heavy into design. but yeah, having the short answer is it's not our only creative, but I think that's really keeps it being creative because it's not the only thing that we're focusing on creatively.
Lisa: Yeah. It keeps it fresh.
Jonny: creative. Yeah, it keeps it fresh.
are you content? Are you happy? And you touched on this, you've arrived. but where, what does the next,
what is the next five years look [00:46:00] like?
Josh: next five years looks like?
Like running the creative of this design firm and I've in the last couple years Moved on to comic art and graph and graphic novels and stuff like that And that's where I really see myself, but I also always want to keep my self here so I think that's a question for Lisa to mostly butI feel like it's personally, I feel like it's like really making sure that our employees are happy And whoever we work with next is, helping to keep the medium going.
Lisa: Yeah, it's, it is an interesting question and kind of complicated because. and this is like a blessing and a curse for me, but I've wanted to stay small and it's partly because I like to keep my finger on the pulse of everything. And so I'm the one that's, has never been like replaced.
Like I've never had anybody working under me or helping me or like an assistant. Like I I'm [00:47:00] still, pretty highly involved in everything. And I don't know. I obviously don't wanna do it like forever,
but for us to change our, to keep our business, but for us to do something else, something would have to change.
Like I'd have to have somebody helping me on the business side and I just don't know,when that's gonna be,
Josh: Because you're happy doing what you're
Lisa: because I am happy. Yeah. Happy doing it right now. But, yeah. things change and
we've
never been great at having a five year plan
Josh: Yeah, I
think it's pretty clear.
The answer to your question is we have
Jonny: your question.
not forcing, just lettingwhat gets you up at 5 a.
Lisa: Nothing.
Smile.
ZOOM0012_Tr1: Yeah. 5 a. m. With a smile. probably something that has to do with our kids,
yeah. Some sort of either, drama they're going through or success they've had or something like that.
Lisa: Aw, that's sweet.
I was just going to [00:48:00] add one thing that I don't know if you want to include or not, but that I was thinking about this morning is, it's funny that me and Josh, like we met when we were like 18 and we met actually around our love of creative things.
Like our first date was going to an art store and, our first, we were doing like a project together that involved drawing, like in social studies class. And we've always loved, Art and like making stuff together. And then it's crazy that all these years later we,we've made this business seems it's cool.
Josh: yeah, you're right.
That's that is funny Yeah, we I think that is like the core of our relationship is and how we met is creating stuff Whether music or a design company or a book or whatever.
Lisa: We had this idea when we started our business that every client was going to get a custom made art piece as a gift.
Remember that?
Josh: we did.
You had those wire horses. We sent out some stuff and they were like, this is not sustainable.
Lisa: we were like, we can't give this to everyone.
Jonny: Everybody gets the same thing. [00:49:00] That's a wrap. Thank you so much.
Josh: thank you for coming and having us. It's
Lisa: Yeah. Thank you. It was really fun to talk about.
Thanks for joining us, and to find out more, go to seattlecreative. directory.